Nov 252015
 

[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpzNgN5Jssc&w=560&h=315]

OSAMA BIN LADEN AND TOOK CUSTODY OF HIS BODY.

>> TAKING OUT OSAMA BIN LADEN.

JUST A HUGE MOMENT FOR THE AMERICAN WAR ON TERROR.

QUESTION NOW IS, WAS PRESIDENT OBAMA'S ACCOUNT OF THE RAID THAT KILLED BIN LADEN A LIE? THAT IS THE CLAIM IN A STUNNING NEW ARTICLE BY NOTED INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST SEYMOUR HERSH.

HE JOINS US NOW TO DEFEND THE REPORTING.

MR.

HERSH, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US ON "NEW DAY.

" >> OKAY.

>> THE BASIC HEADLINE HERE IS, PAKISTAN KNEW WHERE HE WAS, THEY WERE KEEPING HIM THERE, AND ONE OF THEIR OWN TURNED HIM OVER, ESSENTIALLY, TO THE U.

S.

WHY DO YOU BELIEVE THAT STORY, ESPECIALLY LEANING SO HEAVILY ON JUST ONE ANONYMOUS SOURCE? >> WELL, I DON'T THINK THAT'S CORRECT TO SAY ONE ANONYMOUS SOURCE.

THE STORY SAYS CLEARLY THAT I WAS ABLE TO VET AND VERIFY INFORMATION WITH OTHERS IN THE COMMUNITY.

VERY TOUGH FOR GUYS STILL INSIDE TO GET QUOTED EXTENSIVELY.

THERE ARE OTHER PEOPLE WHO AMERICA USES A AN AWFUL LOT OF RETIRED CIA PEOPLE, MILITARY PEOPLE IN THE WAR ON TERROR AND OTHER PEOPLE WHO HAVE RETIRED WITH GREAT INFORMATION, SO IT'S MUCH EASIER TO QUOTE SOME OF THEM THAN THOSE ON ACTIVE DUTY.

I'VE BEEN AROUND A LONG TIME, LONG OF TOOTH IN THIS BUSINESS AND UNDERSTAND THE CONSEQUENCES OF SAYING WHAT I'M SAYING.

>> BUT A LOT OF THE DETAIL YOU HAVE IN THE PIECE, SOME 10,000 WORDS, DOES COME FROM THIS UNNAMED SOURCE AND THAT'S WHY IT'S DRAWING SOME FIRE, BUT, YOU KNOW, YOU GET IN THE PARTICULARS OF IT, WHAT IS THE MAIN REASON WHY THIS WOULD BE A LIE? WHY WOULD IT BE COVERED UP IF IT WAS REALLY JUST A COOPERATIVE AGREEMENT WITH PAKISTAN? WHERE'S THE MOTIVE? >> WELL, NO, THE MOTIVE IS VERY SIMPLE.

THE IDEA, OF COURSE, WAS WE DID HAVE A WALK-IN, THAT'S WHAT THE CIA CALLS SOMEBODY WHO COMES IN AND SORT OF BETRAYS HIS COMPANY OR COUNTRY FOR MONEY.

HE TOOK MOST OF THE $25 MILLION, AT LEAST $20 OF IT, THAT WAS THE OFFER WE HAD ON THE TABLE FOR INFORMATION LEADING TO THE WHEREABOUTS OF BIN LADEN THAT HAD BEEN GOING ON.

WE HAD THAT OFFER OUTSTANDING SINCE 2002, SO SOME GUY WALKS IN, BASICALLY INVOLVED IN THE PROTECTION OF BIN LADEN ON BEHALF OF THE PAKISTANI INTELLIGENCE SERVICE AND WE START FROM THERE.

>> HOW DO YOU THINK A GUY WALKS INTO THE ISLAMABAD EMBASSY, CERTAINLY THIS PERSON WOULD KNOW, HOW CLOSELY WATCHED IT IS BY PAKISTANI AUTHORITIES.

HOW WOULD SOMEONE JUST WALK IN AND GIVE THIS KIND OF INFORMATION? >> I DON'T KNOW THE DETAILS OF HOW HE WALKED IN.

>> MATTERS.

>> OF COURSE IT DOES, BUT IT'S NOT — I CAN TELL YOU RIGHT NOW, HE TALKED TO THE STATION CHIEF, A MAN NAMED JONATHAN BANK, CONFIDENT OFFICER, AND THE CIA AND THE GOVERNMENT DID WHAT YOU DO IN A CASE LIKE THIS, GIVE THIS GUY A POLY GRAPH TEST, A TEAM CAME OUT FROM WASHINGTON TO DO SO.

ALWAYS WORRY ABOUT A WALK-IN.

A LOT OF THEM HAVE A LOT OF REASONS THAT AREN'T PARTICULARLY RELIABLE OR TASTEFUL, SO THEY WORKED HIM TO THE BONE, THEN BEGAN TO DO THE ISSUE AND REALIZED THE PRESIDENT WAS ASKING A LOT OF VERY GOOD QUESTIONS, HOW DO WE KNOW IT'S REALLY BIN LADEN, ET CETERA, AND WE REALIZED WE HAD TO GO TALK TO THE PAKISTANIS KEEPING HIM AND EVENTUALLY AGREED TO COOPERATE US.

THEY DIDN'T HAVE MUCH CHOICE.

WE COULD CUT OFF OUR SUPPLY OF ARMS AND MONEY UNDER THE TABLES TO THE GENERALS AND WE DID SO AND THEY WORKED WITH US.

OF COURSE THEY WORKED WITH US.

THE ALTERNATIVE IS, YOU WANT TO BELIEVE A LEWIS CARROLL FAIRYTALE, BIN LADEN, THE MOST HUNTED MAN SINCE 2002 IN THE WORLD, DECIDED THE ONE SAFE PLACE TO LIVE IS IN A COMPOUND 40 MILES FROM THE MAIN CAPITAL OF PAKISTAN.

>> THAT'S THE POINT OF INTRIGUE THAT'S ALWAYS BEEN A POINT OF SKEPTICISM, THAT WE ALL THOUGHT HE WAS HIDING IN SOME HONEY COMB CAVE SOMEWHERE AND TURNS OUT HE WAS RIGHT DOWN THE STREET FROM THE EQUIVALENT OF THEIR WEST POINT.

WITH THAT AS A STARTING POPOINT — >> PRETTY GOOD STARTING POINT.

>> I DON'T NEED TO TELL YOU THE TRADE, YOU'VE BEEN DOING IT AT SUCH A HIGH LEVEL FOR SUCH A LONG TIME, BUT THE IDEA WE WERE WORKING WITH THEM AND AFTER THE PAKISTANI GOVERNMENT CONDEMNS US UNCONDITIONALLY FOR DOING IT JUST DOESN'T SEEM THEY WERE OWNING THEIR OWN NARRATIVE.

WHY WOULDN'T PAKISTAN COME OUT AND SAY WE GAVE YOU THIS GUY, WE HELPED YOU? >> WELL, THE IDEA WAS, THE UNDERSTANDING WAS, FIRST OF ALL, BIN LADEN'S VERY POPULAR INSIDE PAKISTAN.

MAJORITY OF THE UNWASHED OF THE PEOPLE THERE, MOST OF THE PUBLIC, REALLY RESPECTED AND LIKED BIN LADEN, ESPECIALLY FOR STICKING IT IN THE EYE OF AMERICA.

WE'RE NOT VERY POPULAR IN PAKISTAN.

THINGS ARE A LITTLE BETTER NOW, BUT FOR MANY YEARS WE WERE VERY, VERY LOW, LOW IN THE TOTEM POLE IN TERMS OF RESPECT.

THE IDEA WAS, WE WERE GOING TO GO IN — YOU KNOW, IF YOU HAVE TO THINK ABOUT THIS, A TEAM OF S.

E.

A.

L.

S, OUR S.

E.

A.

L.

S ARE THE BEST, GO INTO THE MIDDLE OF PAKISTAN, TAKE OUT A GUY WITH NO AIR COVER, NO PROTECTION, NO SECURITY, NO TROUBLE.

ARE YOU KIDDING ME? WHAT HAPPENED WAS, THE DEAL WAS WE WEREN'T GOING TO ANNOUNCE IT.

THEY WERE GOING TO TAKE HIM OUT.

THEY HAD TO KILL HIM, THAT WAS THE AGREEMENT.

NO QUESTION THIS WAS AN ASSASSINATION FROM THE GET GO, DESPITE WHAT THE WHITE HOUSE SAYS.

THEY HAD TO KILL HIM, HAD TO BRING THE BODY OUT, THEN ANNOUNCE THE INITIAL PLAN WAS, THE PLAN EVERYBODY AGREED TO, IT WOULD BE ANNOUNCED SEVEN TO TEN DAYS LATER AS THE RESULT WE DID A DRONE HIT IN THE HINDU CUSH MOUNTAINS THAT SEPARATE PAKISTAN AND AFGHANISTAN AND MY GOD, WE TOOK A LOOK, THERE WAS A TALL GUY, TURNED OUT TO BE BIN LADEN, DID A DNA TEST AND THE PRESIDENT WAS GOING TO ANNOUNCE IT A WEEK LATER.

EVERYBODY IN PAKISTAN IS PROTECTED.

>> WHAT HAPPENED? >> THE PRESIDENT DECIDED THAT NIGHT TO GO PUBLIC.

>> LOOK, HE JUST DOUBLE CROSSES THE PEOPLE WHO HANDED HIM SOMETHING, ESPECIALLY THIS PRESIDENT, WHO'S BENT OVER BACKWARDS TO BE NICE TO PAKISTAN? ON THE S.

E.

A.

L.

SIDE, YOU HAVE THEY WERE TRAINING FOR A RAID THAT YOU SAY THEY DIDN'T NEED TO DO.

WHY WERE THEY TRAINING SO HARD? YOU HAVE IT IN UTAH, BUT IT WAS SUPPOSEDLY IN NEVADA, THEN YOU HAVE THE S.

E.

A.

L.

S TELLING SUCH A DIFFERENT ACCOUNT.

THEY WOULD ALL HAVE TO BE LYING FOR WHAT YOU'RE SAYING TO BE TRUE, AND WE HAD PETER BERGAN WHO WENT TO THE COMPOUND BEFORE THEY DESTROYED IT AND SAID THE PLACE WAS RIDDLED WITH BULLETS AND WAS, OBVIOUSLY, THE SCENE OF A FIREFIGHT, NOT TO MENTION WE LOST A BIRD IN THIS, THE HELICOPTER GOING DOWN.

ALL OF THAT WOULD HAVE TO BE UNTRUE, OTHER THAN THE HELICOPTER GOING DOWN, FOR YOUR ACCOUNT TO BE TRUE.

WHY PUT SO MUCH STOCK IN IT? >> BECAUSE I DID AN AWFUL LOT OF WORK, TALKED TO A LOT OF PAKISTANIS, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT MADE THE STORY DOABLE NOW, IS THE FACT A FORMER RETIRED HEAD OF THE PAKISTANI INTELLIGENCE SERVICE BASICALLY SAID TO ME, LOOK, YOU GOT THE STORY.

WE ALL KNOW THIS IS TRUE.

WE'VE ALL KNOWN THIS IS TRUE FOR A LONG TIME.

HE'S TALKING ABOUT THE INSIDERS.

>> DIDN'T SAY THAT TO BERGAN.

HE SAID, LOOK, I DON'T KNOW THE FACTS, BUT IT IS PLAUSIBLE.

THAT'S NOT EXACTLY ENDORSEMENT.

>> THAT'S NOT WHAT HE SAID IN THE MAGAZINE ARTICLE.

>> WE HAVE A GRAPHIC.

PUT UP WHAT WE'RE SAYING THE REPORTING IS THERE SO WE CAN HAVE IT.

WHEN I E-MAILED DURRANI, HE SAID THERE WAS NO EVIDENCE OF ANY KIND THE ISI KNEW THAT BIN LADEN WAS HIDING IN ABBOTTABAD.

>> THAT'S NOT WHAT HE SAID IN THE ARTICLE AND THAT'S NOT WHAT HE SAID IN MANY, MANY EXCHANGES BY PHONE, BY E-MAIL.

THE SENTENCES IN THE ARTICLE ARE VERY DEFINITIVE.

HE UNDERSTOOD THERE WAS A WALK-IN.

OF COURSE EVERYBODY KNEW THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED IN THE PAKISTANI SIDE.

ALSO QUOTED SOMEBODY I COULD NOT NAME IN THE PAKISTANI WHO'S VERY KNOWLEDGEABLE ABOUT PAKISTAN SAYING THE SAME THING.

LOOK, I'M SORRY IT GOES AGAINST THE GRAIN.

I'VE BEEN DOING THIS ALL MY LIFE.

ALL I CAN TELL YOU IS, I UNDERSTAND THE CONSEQUENCES, I'VE BEEN A REPORTER, AS YOU KNOW, FOR 50 YEARS IN THIS TOWN.

HAD A LOT OF GOOD STORIES.

>> NOT EVERYTHING TURNS OUT THE WAY YOU THINK IT'S GOING TO TURN OUT, EVEN IN YOUR OWN CAREER.

THAT'S THE BASIS OF THE BUSINESS.

SOMETHING — >> I WOULD ARGUE THAT A LOT OF THE STORIES I WROTE PRETTY MUCH WERE ON MARK.

I'M NOT GOING TO — NOBODY'S PERFECT, OF COURSE, EVERYBODY'S.

Source: Youtube subtitles

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